I have a friend I have known for 3 years... I am getting aggravated because it seems she can only hang out when it's convenient for her... She never comes to my side of town, but she asks me to come stay with her because she needs me, but is hesitant to come stay with me... She often complains of being tired or sick and exaggerates over it, and I think that's just her way of telling me she needs me because she knows I'll be there for her. Sometimes I feel she even makes stuff up so I will take care of her. Recently, she has really begun to been here for me because I flat out told her I needed her and needed to know she was here for me, but it's kind of weird... On our vacation this past week, she was sick and tired, slept almost the entire time. I was very depressed the trip and was going through alot, and she just told me to let her know if I needed anything. Clearly she couldn't see I was upset. But the morning we left, after it didn't matter anymore, she just hugged me and told me she loved me and tried to make me feel better. Again, I feel that it's only when it's convenient. She shys away from emotional or deep conversations if I initiate them. Well, sometimes she doesn't... But I'm getting really tired of taking care of her and not feeling like she is there for me as much as I am her... Now I assume you're thinking, ok well don't be there for her... But honestly that's just me. That's what friends are for. She has alot of insecurity issues and needs me but I feel takes advantage of me sometimes. As soon as I give her space, it's like she comes crawling back to me and doesn't want me to give her space. She is always afraid that I will be mad at her and afraid of confrontation, but then gives me reasons to be not so happy with her...
She has alot of weird behaviors... For instance, she made up a bunch of excuses for not following through on plans, and when I confronted her about it, she cried and acted like she was getting in trouble. It's like she doesn't think about things and really can't understand that it's not all about her. We are both vulnerable people and we need each other. I think that we both have a hard time expressing how much we need each other... But there is an unspoken bond we have. And no this is not romantic nor do we have any interest like that. We do have a bond that is quite rare for our ages (26 and 30)- like we are both kids at heart and need each other's shoulder to cry on, we both find a caretaker in each other... we both need validation...
My ultimate concern is... I have these feelings that she takes advantage of me, but everything is fine for now. They say don't fix what isn't broken, but I don't want it to happen again. Today is her only day off work, she says she wants to get together but I think she is going to make the excuse that she tired again... It's like she plays games with me to make sure I'm still here for her.
Oh and I forgot to mention I think she may be bulimic and has a history of drug abuse and suicidal thoughts. In the past if I've confronted her, she says "I know. I'm just a sh!tty friend." If I do confront her on it, she will try to be a better friend, but it's just a cycle I feel. Do I continue to be there for her and accept her when she IS here for me? Or do I give her an ultimatum? And what could that be? I can't afford to lose her, but don't like it that it seems a little one sided. And I don't feel that it's her being intentionally selfish because she always seems to know when she's messed up and eventually makes it right in some way, but it's always up and down. I want to let her know I feel it is a little one sided and that I need her as much as she needs me, but I don't want her to get defensive. I want to make the best out of this friendship, but I feel that I need a little acknowledgment and validation...
I have come to realize my friend my be a true narcissist. But I know that stems from her history, so I can't really be mad at her. I do not think she is aware of her behavior because she honestly doesn't see anything wrong... I need to talk to her about it, but there really is no easy way to lay this out is there? What should I say?
So I have posted about my friend lately, and I've just typed up my feelings as if I were to actually send her this letter... I don't know if speaking to her directly will help because I feel she may just try to change the subject. On the other hand, I feel that she may completely disregard this letter if I send it to her or leave it for her on her car... I just don't know how to approach her in a calm, non threatening way. I need her to know how I feel. I don't want to put her down and i don't want to hurt her... Any input is appreciated... Here it is...
I feel your fears and uneasiness. I feel something is going on with you. I have been REALLY worried about you lately. I think your illnesses really reflect something else, something that you're hiding; I think that whatever is stirring inside you makes you physically sick. Something in my gut tells me that you are hiding behind a shell or wall, that there is something you need to reveal to make you better... Everyone needs people, and you have really drawn to people who are unstable, maybe because it makes you feel that taking care of someone else will fulfill something in you that is broken. But you don't expect much in return, and you settle for mediocre relationships and friendships. It is a very good quality to have love and care for others; that's your nature, but I feel that you love and help the ones who hurt you the most. I also feel that you turn to people that do not have your best interest at heart and ultimately that hurts YOU. I have always been here for you, to simply listen. I give you advice and try to take care of you because I try to be a good friend to those I care about. But I feel it is not reciprocated very well. I feel that you take advantage of the fact that I'm always here for you. I feel that you are emotionally unavailable, like you are blank sometimes. It's strange, but I feel we can sit in complete silence, yet still have an idea of what each other is thinking or feeling. I wish you would communicate with me more though because sometimes I think things may get assumed or taken the wrong way. I feel that you don't like to talk about things that need to be addressed because you are scared to face things. None of this is an attack on you so please don't be upset with me. I just need to get this off my chest. I wouldn't still be by your side if I felt you were a bad friend. I guess I just need to know that it's not a chore for you to be by MY side.
It really bothers me that you don't seem to want to spend just you and me time sometimes, like girl time. I feel I am just a tag along buddy so you won't be alone when you go out. I need to know you are here for me. I need you to ask me if I'm ok, and listen to me if I'm not ok. Just to know I have your unconditional support... I feel that you are only here for me when it's convenient. I try to be a positive influence to you. I will try to hide my hurt to make your hurts better. I try not to bring you down. I'm not perfect, nor do I expect you to be... I see that you hurt, and I would do anything to make it better. In Florida I was hurting very badly, yet I was there to take care of YOU when you needed me. I sat on the balcony literally sobbing and pouring my heart out to Christina yet it still didn't help because it wasn't her that I was on vacation with. I felt that you weren't there for me. I should have been able to confide in you. I didn't need you to sit with me into all hours of the night. I don't expect you to fix my problems or have just the right answer. I would have just liked to hear it was going to be ok and that you were here for me. I was very shocked and confused as to why you embraced me and told me you loved me the morning we left. That really did help me though. Had you seen all along that I was hurting and you didn't know what to do? I don't feel that I ask too much of people. I don't feel that I am selfish. A little company, a little acknowledgment would be good- a little give and take. It seems I spent half my vacation letting you reminisce about John and taking you an hour down the beach to see the places yall went because I knew it would help you in some way. I knew that you needed to talk about it because it's something that's been bothering you. I am always trying to help you figure things out and feel better. I am literally broken inside, and I'm trying with all my might to fix it. As I can recall, you have been in that place before as well. I need people by my side. That's what helps me. I need alot of support right now. You have really helped in the past, but I feel that you've grown tired of me... You expect my support (and that IS what I'm here for), but when I try to come to you, I feel that it is too much for you and I ultimately feel like a fool. Sometimes, I am just NOT ok. Sometimes, I AM ok. We all have ups and downs. But I do have hard times, and I need you, S. Sometimes, all I need is an embrace of love and acceptance or for you to actually make me feel that you enjoy my company and that I'm not a burden on you. Let's just move forward with faith and support. We have both been hurt very badly by others, but I feel that our separate fears and feelings are somehow distancing US. If I could start all over, I would. If I could have made vacation better, I would. I need to go back to the beach. I need to get the hell out of dodge and start new with myself. And I need your support. If you are taken aback or insulted or confused, DON'T be. Just take a look at the situation with you and J. (btw- she is constantly rescuing him when he is drunk and he uses her only when he needs something and it really hurts her, Yet she can't pull herself away.) You are always there for him because you care-because you have had great times together. You just need that reciprocated because you feel it is bringing you down.
"Why do we adore those who ignore us, ignore those who adore us, hurt those who love us, and love those who hurt us?" I feel things are completely a** backwards.
OK, so, from everything I read, it seems like she's actually kind of manipulative. She's obviously very needy. I also think she's insecure which is why she calls on you so much for help/friendship. Like I said first, I think she's also manipulative and it plays off of her insecurity. Then, her manipulation spawns guilt and makes that insecurity go into overdrive...
Basically, she's insecure and wants to test your friendship so she calls you. She manipulates you into being there for her with stories of illness or whatever else. She knows you get pissy, so she gets even more insecure about possibly losing you as a friend beuuase she was a manipulative goof. THEN, she feels guilty about it and tries to make it up to you somehow. Unfortunately, that "somehow" might be just another level of manipulation even if there's some truth to it.
I mean, think about it. You're pissy and depressed on your vacation with her, she knows it, and wants to make it up to you. That added level of manipulation is exactly what she did when she hugged you and said she loved you. I mean, what negative thing could you say to that? Nothing. She knew that would put you in a "shut up, you HAVE to forgive me" position. A few days later, she probably felt horrible about pulling that on you and made a more genuine attempt at showing her appreciation.
I'm not saying she's a horrible friend. I'm just saying she's got crappy friendship skills and just doesn't seem to know how to act because her main focus seems to be herself. But when she realizes she's being a conceited a**, she at least tries to make it better.
She has alot of weird behaviors... For instance, she made up a bunch of excuses for not following through on plans, and when I confronted her about it, she cried and acted like she was getting in trouble.
Oh and I forgot to mention I think she may be bulimic and has a history of drug abuse and suicidal thoughts.
Unfortunately, I think some of this friendship is your fault. She's obviously got major problems and you've allowed her behavior for 3 years. I mean, you chose to keep her as a friend knowing she's got some major issues. You've also allowed her to treat you this way.
I'm not saying you're wrong about her terrible behavior; I'm just saying that you've allowed it to continue, so it's probably going to be much harder to break her of these habits.
In the past if I've confronted her, she says "I know. I'm just a sh!tty friend."
HUGE manipulation tactic right there. It's her way of completely shifting ALL of the control to her. It turns the tables 180 degrees.
YOU: You know, I was a little upset about how you ditched me 20 minutes before I was supposed to pick you up for that concert. (You're in control of the situation and have the right to be angry.) HER: I know, I'm just a shitty friend. YOU: Oh, no! No, you're not! You're a great friend. I love you as my friend. (You just gave up all your rights to be angry because you just gave her the power and are now kissing her a** to make her feel better.)
It's a huge manipulation tactic. It's like her "get out of jail free" card so she can make your complaint go away.
Do I continue to be there for her and accept her when she IS here for me? Or do I give her an ultimatum? And what could that be?
Ultimatums never work out. They might work at first, but they always end horribly. The only thing that'll work is compromise. Unfortunately, with her, it might be hard to reach a compromise.
I can't afford to lose her, but don't like it that it seems a little one sided.
First, you CAN afford to lose her. You just don't want to.
Second, one-sided friendships aren't really friendships at all. They're pseudo-counseling sessions where one person gives and gives while the other person takes and takes.
And I don't feel that it's her being intentionally selfish because she always seems to know when she's messed up and eventually makes it right in some way
That's the guilt kicking in because she realizes she was a manipulative douche. It might also be insecurity and self-centeredness. She might just be making it up to make herself feel better and to keep you around, not necessarily because she knows she hurt you and wants YOU to feel better.
I want to let her know I feel it is a little one sided and that I need her as much as she needs me, but I don't want her to get defensive. I want to make the best out of this friendship, but I feel that I need a little acknowledgment and validation...
I really think you just need to tell her that. Put it out there just like that too. If she gets defensive, DO NOT play into it. Don't fall for her little "I'm a shitty friend" speech. Throw her off guard. If she says, "I know, I'm just a shitty friend," then you say, "Yeah, you are, and that's why we're having this conversation because I still love you and want our friendship to work out. So, we can either talk about this or I'll just go away and let my feelings fester until I just blow up at you some day. I don't think that would be good for either of us."
I have come to realize my friend my be a true narcissist. But I know that stems from her history, so I can't really be mad at her.
Yeah, you can. People who blame everything on their "history" are assholes. It's not that they CAN'T move on, it's that they don't WANT to move on. They like the attention. They like the sympathy. They get used it and don't want to leave that little pity party. The sad part is that they forget how awesome life can be when they finally work through a problem and don't have all that mess dragging them down. The attention and sympathy makes them feel good for a day or two. But not carrying around all that baggage makes them feel great all the time.
I do not think she is aware of her behavior because she honestly doesn't see anything wrong...
She sees it. She's totally aware of it. She's just... well... she's just a shitty friend because she's self-centered and pre-occupied with living in her own world of aggravation and depression. She's decided that you're her little employee and your job is to make her feel good whenever she decides she wants a break from her baggage.
I need to talk to her about it, but there really is no easy way to lay this out is there? What should I say?
Just tell her. Let it come out however it needs to come out. Just don't let her manipulate you into giving up control of the conversation. The second you start boosting her up and telling her that YOU'RE sorry for mentioning anything is the second you lose all the power and all the credibility. Why? Because when you do that, you are essentially saying, "OK, whatever point I was trying to make really isn't that important to me because now, I'm just trying to make you feel better."
So I have posted about my friend lately, and I've just typed up my feelings as if I were to actually send her this letter... I don't know if speaking to her directly will help because I feel she may just try to change the subject.
You can't let her change the subject.
When something is important to you, you have to keep control of the situation. I'm not saying you need to control the friendship. I'm saying you need to keep control of the situation/conversation when it has to do with something that's important to you. This needs to be said. She needs to acknowledge it. She needs to work with you to make this friendship a success. If she can't compromise, then she's not a friend. You always go to her. She should be able to come to you half the time. That's a compromise. If she's always making the decisions and the demands (like you going to her all the time), then she's not a friend. In that scenario, she's a bossy, needy, wench.
On the other hand, I feel that she may completely disregard this letter if I send it to her or leave it for her on her car...
Then she's not a friend at all. AT ALL. If she disregards something that she knows is important to you, then it shows that she really doesn't care about your feelings at all. That is NOT a friend.
Technically, you could do that. Put it on her car or mail it to her. If she disregards it, then walk away from the friendship completely. That would leave the ball in her court. You make the effort and if she refuses to acknowledge it, then you know she's not interested in the friendship.
I just don't know how to approach her in a calm, non threatening way. I need her to know how I feel. I don't want to put her down and i don't want to hurt her... Any input is appreciated... Here it is...
Approach her however you need to approach her. You're hurt. You're angry as hell. You have a right to be mean. You have a right to call her a couple names. You have a right to put her down. She's done you wrong. You deserve to be heard and acknowledged. If she can't accept or even see that you've been deeply hurt by her abhorrent behavior for the last 3 years, then she's not your friend and she doesn't care about you at all.
Quoted from THE LETTER
I feel your fears and uneasiness. I feel something is going on with you. I have been REALLY worried about you lately. I think your illnesses really reflect something else, something that you're hiding; I think that whatever is stirring inside you makes you physically sick. Something in my gut tells me that you are hiding behind a shell or wall, that there is something you need to reveal to make you better...
Sounds good so far...
Quoted from THE LETTER
Everyone needs people, and you have really drawn to people who are unstable, maybe because it makes you feel that taking care of someone else will fulfill something in you that is broken. But you don't expect much in return, and you settle for mediocre relationships and friendships. It is a very good quality to have love and care for others; that's your nature, but I feel that you love and help the ones who hurt you the most. I also feel that you turn to people that do not have your best interest at heart and ultimately that hurts YOU.
Maybe I'm missing something, but it doesn't seem like her friendships with anyone are very good. Is it really becuase she's too loving and giving?? Or is it becuase she's self-centered and oblivious?
I have always been here for you, to simply listen. I give you advice and try to take care of you because I try to be a good friend to those I care about. But I feel it is not reciprocated very well. I feel that you take advantage of the fact that I'm always here for you. I feel that you are emotionally unavailable, like you are blank sometimes. It's strange, but I feel we can sit in complete silence, yet still have an idea of what each other is thinking or feeling. I wish you would communicate with me more though because sometimes I think things may get assumed or taken the wrong way. I feel that you don't like to talk about things that need to be addressed because you are scared to face things. None of this is an attack on you so please don't be upset with me.
Pretty good, but get rid of the "so, please don't be upset with me." That opens a giant door for her to play a manipulation card. Whether she's angry about it or not, she knows, by you saying that, that she can turn the situation to her favor if she gets angry.
You keep the focus on the facts, not her feelings right now. When she can finally acknowledge her mistakes and ask for forgiveness, then you can talk about feelings.
Quoted from THE LETTER
I just need to get this off my chest. I wouldn't still be by your side if I felt you were a bad friend. I guess I just need to know that it's not a chore for you to be by MY side.
Good stuff.
Quoted from THE LETTER
It really bothers me that you don't seem to want to spend just you and me time sometimes, like girl time. I feel I am just a tag along buddy so you won't be alone when you go out. I need to know you are here for me. I need you to ask me if I'm ok, and listen to me if I'm not ok. Just to know I have your unconditional support...
Good job! Attack it head-on. No room for misinterpretation.
Quoted from THE LETTER
I feel that you are only here for me when it's convenient. I try to be a positive influence to you.
That's a shave condescending. I know what you mean, but if she's on the defensive, she'll go overboard... Instead of "I try to be a positive influence to you," say something like, "I try to be a positive force in your life." The positive influence thing kind of makes it sound like you're trying to be a good role model because she's a child.
Quoted from THE LETTER
I will try to hide my hurt to make your hurts better. I try not to bring you down. I'm not perfect, nor do I expect you to be... I see that you hurt, and I would do anything to make it better. In Florida I was hurting very badly, yet I was there to take care of YOU when you needed me. I sat on the balcony literally sobbing and pouring my heart out to Christina yet it still didn't help because it wasn't her that I was on vacation with. I felt that you weren't there for me. I should have been able to confide in you. I didn't need you to sit with me into all hours of the night. I don't expect you to fix my problems or have just the right answer. I would have just liked to hear it was going to be ok and that you were here for me. I was very shocked and confused as to why you embraced me and told me you loved me the morning we left. That really did help me though.
Aww... Now *I* wanna give you a hug and tell you it'll all be OK. Everything works out in the end one way or another. It might suck for awhile, you might win, you might lose, but in the end, everything works out.
Quoted from THE LETTER
Had you seen all along that I was hurting and you didn't know what to do? I don't feel that I ask too much of people. I don't feel that I am selfish. A little company, a little acknowledgment would be good- a little give and take. It seems I spent half my vacation letting you reminisce about John and taking you an hour down the beach to see the places yall went because I knew it would help you in some way. I knew that you needed to talk about it because it's something that's been bothering you. I am always trying to help you figure things out and feel better. I am literally broken inside,
Not "literally" broken... Just broken... VERY VERY EMOTIONALLY broken...
Quoted from THE LETTER
and I'm trying with all my might to fix it. As I can recall, you have been in that place before as well. I need people by my side. That's what helps me. I need alot of support right now. You have really helped in the past, but I feel that you've grown tired of me... You expect my support (and that IS what I'm here for), but when I try to come to you, I feel that it is too much for you and I ultimately feel like a fool. Sometimes, I am just NOT ok. Sometimes, I AM ok. We all have ups and downs. But I do have hard times, and I need you, S. Sometimes, all I need is an embrace of love and acceptance or for you to actually make me feel that you enjoy my company and that I'm not a burden on you. Let's just move forward with faith and support.
Good, but let's NOT just move forward with faith and support. Let's move together with faith and support AFTER we have some heart-to-heart conversations about what's going on. What do we need from each other? What's going to make us both better friends to one another?
Quoted from THE LETTER
We have both been hurt very badly by others, but I feel that our separate fears and feelings are somehow distancing US. If I could start all over, I would. If I could have made vacation better, I would. I need to go back to the beach. I need to get the hell out of dodge and start new with myself. And I need your support. If you are taken aback or insulted or confused, DON'T be. Just take a look at the situation with you and J. (btw- she is constantly rescuing him when he is drunk and he uses her only when he needs something and it really hurts her, Yet she can't pull herself away.) You are always there for him because you care-because you have had great times together. You just need that reciprocated because you feel it is bringing you down.
Nice association. Let her know that she sometimes makes you feel the same way J makes her feel. That might jumpstart her understanding a little.
"Why do we adore those who ignore us, ignore those who adore us, hurt those who love us, and love those who hurt us?" I feel things are completely a** backwards.
Honestly, your little quote often applies to women. Typically, hot women. I don't know you, but that quote is very applicable to a certain type of woman. And it requires a shift in perspective.
Why do you adore those who ignore you? Because they are the people you view as hot, perfect, or "just right" because of their looks, their money, or whatever. You think so highly of yourself that you think you deserve no less than that particular person (or type of person). In reality, that person has the same idea and you're just not good enough for them, so they ignore you after they use you for their amusement.
Ignore those who adore us? You think so highly of yourself that they're just not good enough, smart enough, attractive enough, wealthy enough, or whatever.
Hurt those who love us? Self-centered. Think you can do better. Don't care about the feelings of people around you because you think you deserve more than what they can offer.
Love those who hurt us? Infatuation. You want what they have. You want what they can offer. You want it so bad that you're willing to disrespect yourself, humiliate yourself, and willing to allow them to disrespect and humiliate you simply for the CHANCE of getting a taste of what they have.
I'm not saying that this really applies to YOU, but it applies to a lot of people. If that sounds like you, then maybe it's time to do some soul-searching. Find out who you really are, find out who really loves you, and get to know them. Looks and money aren't the important things. Looks fade. Money can be lost. Loyalty, dedication, friendship, personality, and chemistry are what will stand the test of time.
Anyway, good luck. Please come back and let us know how everything turns out.
Wow, I am just now noticing your reply, and I really appreciate your honesty. It's hard for me to see it in your perspective, but I'm really noticing things. That night when i went to her job I decided to go in and have a quick random chat before putting it on her car. She told me about a guy she had met who she really liked... I was on my way to meet a friend and asked her to come out with us when she got off... She didn't get off work til late & said she needed to get home because she was exhausted and had to be at work the next morning... Well, left the letter on her car and went off to meet my friend. As soon as met my friend, I got a text from her that said she read the letter and was crying at the bar we always go to, completely sober and that she "loved me always". She asked me to meet her at the bar... This is where "the guy" plays music. She said "I really want you to meet J" I said, "You know I'm out here, I can't meet you. How about you come meet me?" She said, "because you're 30 miles away and this is right down the road from my house and I can't be out long. He asked me to come by for a minute." Anyway, when I didn't come meet her, she blew my phone up all night, asking if I was having fun, being very sweet to me, and telling me how much she liked this guy, etc... I told her I'd call her later. She made a desperate attempt to keep in contact with me since I couldn't be with her.
By the end of the night, (about 2 am) and after about 20 texts from her, she still hadn't left the bar yet... She had all that time to meet me where I was, but "ended up staying until he left"... Yes, I am aware that's the definition of selfish, myzyri...
Flash forward a few days later... We're just hanging out... At the end of the night, we were sitting in the car listening to music, & I knew she wouldn't talk about it unless I brought it up so I said, "Why did you cry last night?" (regarding the letter) She started telling me some jibberish about John-about the guy part - I assume the part where I told her she gravitates towards bad people... She focused on the parts of the letter that had an easy response. She said she had realized some things about the guys she's dated and about herself. I said, "But that letter was not all about J or guys..." So I left the airways wide open because there was nothing else in the letter to speak of except what I was trying to get across. She said, "I know..." and proceeded to go into a shpeel about her ADHD and that she has a learned behavior from her parents to be very disconnected... She said she couldn't help but notice the damn bushes needed to be trimmed beside us or that she hates that she lives her life thinking why is there a window there, but not there. She tried to hone in on something from her past, but she just couldn't get it out. She mentioned a very vague "When you deal with something for almost 30 years..." She suddenly became very timid, uncomfortable, and seemingly afraid. She couldn't even touch on the subject at hand which was the letter. I could tell her thoughts were racing. She said she doesn't know how to be a good friend to people. She couldn't even focus on one sentence or even finish her own thoughts.... I told her good night and went home. Simple as that. I didn't want to hear any more excuses because I was about to pop her in the face...
She IS aware of how she makes me feel and tries to make it up to me and says it makes her day to be able to spend time together. She IS very needy, and I do often feel like her mother. I made a general comment the other night that I felt like her in her situation where she cared for her ex but was emotionally exhausted because he didn't care for her in the same way. She couldn't understand that I was implying I felt this way about HER. We got into a conversation about how we both wanted nothing but to live simply, enjoy company, be able to go out, have a drink, not answer to anyone, etc... She told me it made her day to be able to live simply and spend time with me... I told her about a hurtful situation where my mother was saying hurtful things and judging me. She told me she has never judged me and was glad we were out spending time together. (which she has NEVER been judgemental of me... but I DO KNOW it doesn't make up for ditching me sometimes.
You know, I can see a change in her since she read that letter and I confronted her on it. I have left her with alot to think about in the past couple of days. I can play her mind game too. I am testing her, and not giving into the bs. This is the last chance. I vow to speak my mind without regard to her if anything else happens. And if she fails this test, I have a very blunt, no sugar-coating letter I am in progress of composing...
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